Originally posted by CSK'sMom You just think you are buying Canadian meat, beef in particular. Beef cattle are moved across the border (both ways). Calves are born in the US, backgrounded and then shipped to Canada for finishing. Technically they are not what I would call Canadian cattle but qualify because they were finished here. I eat 100% organic Canadian beef raised to finish, locally born and slaughtered, can you say the same? I know mine wasn't implanted with growth hormones or fed antibiotics...

Actually, I do know where my beef comes from -- Dad's beef farm. Since he left the dairy farm he has been raising his own 20 head cattle, for own use and sells some to relatives and neighbours. The are raised the same way yours are. The steers are only fed grain, corn and soybean, my dad plants every spring and hay from his own farm. No hormones there either. And where do the steers come from you may ask? Good question. From my uncle's, and a neighbour who raise them with their mothers until Dad buys them and finishes them.

So are we two head strong ladies that will argue about this here on end and try to outdo one another or can we drop this now. Because basically, we seem to eat the same homegrown quality beef that melts in your mouth, rather than old cow found at the supermarket. I certainly did not put my two cents worth in here to start a war!

When I said "You run more a risk of buying US milk full of hormones than here in Canada!" I meant you run a risk, as someone else said here in this thread that hormone-free milk is getting harder to find. Nothing more. Where did I accuse you of ignorance?

And so I don't start another war, I will not comment on organic farming either.

Wolverine, I wasn't trying to gang up on you. Really. I just happened to agree with CKS's mom. Strongly. You gave a fairly strong(and slightly judgemental) opinion, why are we not entitled to the same? You can choose to support whomever you like, but asking why others don't is a bit sticky, and generally speaking, when you start out saying" I don't want to offend you but" you are walking on thin ice. I will say that I admire your patriotism though

Originally posted by Wolverine You don't need to sound so harsh. I might add I was raised on a dairy farm, in Ontario, where I started milking cows at the ripe age of 9, yes 9 years old. Being the oldest of two daughters, no brothers, I was put to work very early on. (Some may go on to say that today that would be considered exploitation) It was, yes was (as Dad sold shortly after I got married, because of back problems) a family business operating over 450 acres of land, 125 head of dairy cattle. Don't talk to me about hard work!! Dad only hired 1 man during stone picking time and to help unload the hay into the mow if we had more than 4 load to unload at the end of the day. As for seeing milk being dumped down the drain, been there, done that, almost 19 years ago! You may say farmers are forced to dump their milk on pick-up day, but they do have the opportunity at times to buy extra quota! Been there, done that. I only buy Canadian meat and dairy products. Here in Nova Scotia, unless it's fruit and vegetable season, which is shorter than in Ontario for example, it's sometimes hard to only buy "Canadain" fruits and vegetables. As for "BUT then again, I bet you eat Mexican produce..." I resent that. I personally felt attacked by all your comments. You don't know me, I don't know you. When I asked the question " if there was a reason you didn't support Can. milk producers" there was no tone of attack in my comment. So why did you feel the need to attack me? And there is no need to gang up on me either, is there, CurlyQ? That's just my two cents worth. I didn't come here to offend anyone but obviously I must have touched a bad nerve with some of you. Have a nice day, anyway.

Wow - Being Vegan I'm sure in the wrong thread

However even though I'm sure our views differ no biggie and to the bowl!

Originally posted by NakedGord Wow - Being Vegan I'm sure in the wrong thread However even though I'm sure our views differ no biggie and to the bowl!

Well, thanks NakedGord.

If we all liked the same things, agreed on everything, wouldn't that make it a bland world. No fun when we all agree.

I also use the 4L bags of milk and never had 1 break. And you can freeze them. I buy for 3.49 here. Used to buy powdered milk but the big bag at the store is now almost $20.00 so I only buy some to have on hand for emergencies or camping etc now.
One store in our area gives 50% off when the expired date is coming up...usually 2 to 3 days. I grab them then and freeze them. Never goes sour on me. I hit paydirt yesterday. I got 7 4L bags half price each. Paid $24.43 and then was discounted 12.22. I have never seen any other store do this. I make all my own soups so we use quite a bit of milk.

The plastic bags are great to reuse. They are really heavy and I wash and use them freezing garden veggies etc. Of course if I have reused them for meat, they are then thrown away.

I don't drink milk

At a local grocer, Extra Foods, they were carrying a 4L jug of milk for $2.99...limit of 1. Additional quantities were $3.6x.

Dave

We pay $5.09 for a 4 litre bag of Lactantia filtered homo (minus a 35 cent coupon that is almost always readily available in the store). But the more I read about the differences between raw milk and what we are sold, the more skeptical I'm becoming.

Originally posted by Wolverine As for "BUT then again, I bet you eat Mexican produce..." I resent that. I personally felt attacked by all your comments. You don't know me, I don't know you. When I asked the question " if there was a reason you didn't support Can. milk producers" there was no tone of attack in my comment. So why did you feel the need to attack me? And there is no need to gang up on me either, is there, CurlyQ? That's just my two cents worth. I didn't come here to offend anyone but obviously I must have touched a bad nerve with some of you. Have a nice day, anyway.

Bravo for continuing to clearly proceed with your rational argument. An apology is unlikely from this attacker, I commend your turning of the other cheek...

Originally posted by Common Cents We pay $5.09 for a 4 litre bag of Lactantia filtered homo (minus a 35 cent coupon that is almost always readily available in the store). But the more I read about the differences between raw milk and what we are sold, the more skeptical I'm becoming. Bravo for continuing to clearly proceed with your rational argument. An apology is unlikely from this attacker, I commend your turning of the other cheek...

If that was a jab at me CC, jab away till your hearts content. When one attacks and assumes that sort of stance, one had better not be a hypocrit and stand by their convictions 110%. Go ahead and take a jab at someone for not buying Canadian and supporting Canadian agriculture and then admit to not buying Canadian produce..... Pot calling kettle black I'd say!

Now on to raw milk issue/question. It's not legal for a dairy farmer to sell raw milk in Canada. I hope you noticed on the site you quoted the info about the Georgetown dairy. I met that farmer a couple of years ago. He has some amazing info and preliminary studies. Stuff like calves fed pasturized milk fail to thrive and die! And this is the stuff we feed our kids and drink ourselves~!~

Originally posted by CSK'sMom buying Canadian and supporting Canadian agriculture and then admit to not buying Canadian produce.....

I'm kind of wondering if you can buy bananas, oranges and such products that grow in the tropics, but grown here in Canada in the middle of winter?

It seems that even when produce is Canadian grown, by the time it reaches Sobeys and Superstore here in Nova Scotia, the produce has already started to wilt/grow nasty molds/have rotten spots. Fresh, well, you better say that word quickly!

Just my two cents.

To answer your questions CouponLady there is actually such a thing as Canadian tropicals such as bananas and oranges. Very small quantities though grown under glass. There isn't a huge market for them due to the high prices. Most of the Canadian grown tropicals end up in high-end restaurants. Just today hubby had to source Canadian grown lemons for a very picky chef at a 5 star restaurant....

You'd be surprised how quickly produce makes it from farm to retailer. If you are seeing crappy produce in your local stores you need to complain to the produce managers of those stores. When off-shore produce like bananas can be picked, packed and gassed today and arrive in Canada within 24 hrs there is absolutely no excuse for stores selling crappy product. It's not that good produce is not available, it's that the local consumers are putting up with crappy produce....

Originally posted by CSK'sMom Now on to raw milk issue/question. It's not legal for a dairy farmer to sell raw milk in Canada.

I read a bit of the website and it says with our modern sterile clean methods, pasteurization is no longer necessary...Now i've been in dairy farms and although i assume the milking machines and tanks are clean and sterile, i wouldn't count on the cow's udder. Is it really safe without being pasteurized?

My parent's next door neighbour's physiotherapist's son was given raw milk at a farm and got E. Coli from it...Now i know that's kind of a long string and it's true that my mother know's someone who practically died from practically everything... but still, i'm curious. you seem to be pretty dilligent on what you feed your kids and seem like you'd never expose them to something that could give them food poisoning... What are the risks?

Also, I just had another thought. The stuff about raw milk and how it has so many more nutrients, health benefits, etc than of pasteurized milk, I can buy that, probably true.

But then again, the consumption of cows milk into adulthood is decidedly 'unnatural'. 10,000 years ago before animals were domesticated, no human would be drinking milk beyond early childhood/ infancy.

Because of this, on a global scale (i learned this in anthropology), it is more likely that a person be lactose intolerant than tolerant because the body stops producing the enzyme that breaks down lactose after early childhood. Only northern europeans (ie british and a few others) have developed the ability to still produce the enzyme into adulthood because of their love of cheese and dairy...

so that being said, there must be other ways to get these nutrients, such as B vitamins, calcium, than through milk, since from a historical prospective, humans consuming dairy products is relatively new...

Originally posted by alligator I read a bit of the website and it says with our modern sterile clean methods, pasteurization is no longer necessary...Now i've been in dairy farms and although i assume the milking machines and tanks are clean and sterile, i wouldn't count on the cow's udder. Is it really safe without being pasteurized? My parent's next door neighbour's physiotherapist's son was given raw milk at a farm and got E. Coli from it...Now i know that's kind of a long string and it's true that my mother know's someone who practically died from practically everything... but still, i'm curious. you seem to be pretty dilligent on what you feed your kids and seem like you'd never expose them to something that could give them food poisoning... What are the risks?

It's possible alligator, in fact it does happen from time to time. Here is a pretty unbiased risk assessment... Risks associated with raw milk My opinion (FWIW) is that in all likelyhood the cases linked to raw milk are more likly due to poor hygiene on the part of the visitors to the farms as most of the cases seem to have been contracted during farm visits. Reminds me of the mass outbreak a few years ago of e-coli at the London Fair. Kids were in the petting zoo and there weren't any handwashing facilities available. We lived on a working farm raising beef cattle until recently, so as a family we are well versed in the nasties associated with livestock. Whenever we had a cow that lost her calf we would routinely milk her and drink the milk. Not in huge quantities though as we had beef cows. We even thought seriously about keeping a jersey just for the family milk...

In fact when a cow comes in to the milking parlour her udder is washed and sanitized before being hooked up to the milking machines.