Does anyone know -

Can an engineer be fired for declining to work overtime?

The standards for engineers are different from the rest of us in the Labour Code, I know, but it seems to me that an engineer shouldn't be a slave to his/her job unless they choose to do so.

I also understand that it's common for engineers to work more than 40 hours a week (and P.Eng's don't get overtime pay for that), but can an employer really *require* that of their employees?

Originally posted by Emily Does anyone know - Can an engineer be fired for declining to work overtime? The standards for engineers are different from the rest of us in the Labour Code, I know, but it seems to me that an engineer shouldn't be a slave to his/her job unless they choose to do so. I also understand that it's common for engineers to work more than 40 hours a week (and P.Eng's don't get overtime pay for that), but can an employer really *require* that of their employees?

Engineers are professionals and are not covered by regular standards the same way as doctors or other professionals are not covered.
They ARE governed by the contract (conditions that were agreed to at the time of hiring) they have with their employer.
Most people, under the Labor code or not, can not refuse all overtime.

Engineers don't get overtime pay because they don't get paid hourly-they get paid pretty high salaries and often get bonuses when they put in extra work to complete a project

If the standards at a company require an employee to work 50 hours per week then YES a person could be fired.

Besides that is not the only consideration. If everyone else is working 50 hours and a single employee is working less, then that employee will be resented, excluded, and become a pariah in the workplace. Who would want to work somewhere where everyone else hated him?

Hm. My spouse is working 50-60 hour weeks and saying it's not his choice, that he would be fired if he refused.

So, it's based on company standards? There are no regulations? If his company decided 80 hour work weeks were now standard, he'd have to take it or be fired?

Originally posted by Emily Hm. My spouse is working 50-60 hour weeks and saying it's not his choice, that he would be fired if he refused. So, it's based on company standards? There are no regulations? If his company decided 80 hour work weeks were now standard, he'd have to take it or be fired?

He would have to check out what it is he agreed to when he took the job. Quite often for professionals there is a written contract that he would have signed onto when he first accepted the job.

Thanks Dewcat

I'm fairly lucky as an engineer, with my company. While I am considered salaried, I do get paid by the hours and get time and a half for any hours beyond the company standard 7.5 hour day. We are a contract based company, meaning that we have slow periods and busy periods. Overtime is usually required during these busy periods.

I'd have to check the specific wording, but our company is reasonable about OT - partly because it is paid, you have to have approval to work beyond the regular hours (else it would be abused). Essentially the company says they will try to keep work to the standard 37.5 hours a week, but that during busy times it is expected that OT will be put in by employees as required so that the company can meet its commitments. I believe the wording is wishy-washy so that if they ever needed they could insist on some crazy hours, but I think that even during our busiest times I've rarely exceeded 60 hours in one week.

The company's also been pretty understanding since my first child was born; I haven't been required to do crazy OT since then (yet), and I've been excluded from several field service trips as a result.

But what others have said is pretty much true, engineers are held to a different standard. I would think though that there would be some overriding laws though if, say, it were affecting your spouse's health.

Well he does get paid hourly (banked or payout for overtime - no time and a half since he got his P.Eng.). They do need approval at times for OT but it seems in busy times (which are most times these days), it's not just approved but expected.

I would say it's affecting our relationship but couldn't point to his health unless a general bad temper and stress will get a doctor's note.

<sigh>

I wonder if companies in North America will ever learn that happy employees are more productive and efficient employees...

Yes, definitely check with the agreement when your husband was hired.

Depending on your location, if you and your husband decide that it is not fair, then you may want to consider other job options. Currently, BC and Alberta are generally good places for employment for many engineers (some fields are busier than others). Once one has a P.Eng. it's opens a lot of doors.

Consulting engineering is particularly hard on the family life. 60-70 hours work weeks were the norm for me as an EIT back in the mid 90's. Pay wasn't good either.

Good luck.

Dave

Originally posted by Emily Well he does get paid hourly (banked or payout for overtime - no time and a half since he got his P.Eng.). They do need approval at times for OT but it seems in busy times (which are most times these days), it's not just approved but expected. I would say it's affecting our relationship but couldn't point to his health unless a general bad temper and stress will get a doctor's note. <sigh> I wonder if companies in North America will ever learn that happy employees are more productive and efficient employees...

Been a while since I've been 'swimming' in the bowl so just saw this topic now.. generally I agree with everything that has been said so far. He's lucky in that at least he gets paid or lieu time for his overtime. As Dewcat said he could be just salary and that's it. I also have been lucky in that I get paid overtime or lieu time and there is not a lot of pressure to do overtime. The exception would be a shutdown situation or are commissioning something with a hard and fast deadline...

Just recently I went back and read my contract that I signed when I was hired and it actually says right in there that the company has a right to dismiss me at any time as long as they give me 3 weeks pay/notice for every year of employment.

Whether or not they would actually go through with firing or whether it would just create a stigma as Dewcat said is hard to say and would probably depend on what his contract at the time of signing on is like and the company culture. I think it's generally sucky that as soon as he got his P.Eng. he went from being paid time and a half to just straight time. What a congratulations for the achievement and designation

Bottom line is that if this is a long term thing and this is the culture of the company and he's not happy and it's straining your relationship, he better start looking for another job. Life's too short and it's not worth it. Certainly there are other options out there and while his situation is common, there are exceptions and it doesn't have to be that way.

Thanks for all the comments, guys. The plus side of all that banked time is that he's using the extra vacation days he's earned to take one day off a week for two months in the summer. That should help cut down on the stress a lot!

I agree it stinks that getting the P.Eng. meant he went from time and a half to straight time - the minute HR got his email that he got his P.Eng, they shot back an email saying,

"Congratulations. You are no longer eligible for time and a half for overtime, effective immediately."

Nice eh!