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HOME > The Bowl > Thinking Outside the Bowl > Intensely Serious Debate > An Honourable War?
   
 
An Honourable War?

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What is the percentage of honourable intention in the war with Iraq?
This poll is closed.
100% 0 0%
80% 6 8.96%
60% 3 4.48%
40% 6 8.96%
20% 23 34.33%
0% 29 43.28%
Total: 67 votes 100%
 

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Voodoo22  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in TOR
ON
Addiction Index™: 116
Oct 28, 2003  10:14 PM 46

I think the Americans truly believe that they can make anyone better by making them more like them. I don't believe their intensions are inherently evil, but I do not agree that they take into consideration the opinions of others.

I am glad Canada had almost no hand in this war and I hope it continues that way. The Americans should prove that they had only the best intentions in mind by cleaning up the mess themselves and not asking for the rest of the world to help bail them out of what they started.(They created Saddam to attack Iran and the Taliban to attack the Russians)

The US is held to higher standards than other countries, because they are the most powerful one in the world. I think this entire Iraq and Afghanistan thing is a good lesson for them if they choose to learn from it.


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ghoti  
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Committed in Sep 2002
I'm in dependently poor

Addiction Index™: 598
Oct 30, 2003  9:45 AM 47

their intentions may not be "evil", but they're definitely selfish. here's a quote about iraq from senator trent lott from this article:

"Honestly, it’s a little tougher than I thought it was going to be," Lott said. In a sign of frustration, he offered an unorthodox military solution: "If we have to, we just mow the whole place down, see what happens. You’re dealing with insane suicide bombers who are killing our people, and we need to be very aggressive in taking them out."


wonderful humanitarians, those american politicians!


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bookhead  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in side your computer

Addiction Index™: 1491
Nov 27, 2003  10:02 AM 48

How about those tactical nuclear weapons Bush just signed into law, after already passing the Senate and Congress.

Looks like those WMD's might be found after all...

Civilization is a pyramid scheme. -Ronald Wright
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Rustling Leaf  
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Committed in May 2001
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Dec 10, 2003  5:21 PM 49

Canada shut out of Iraq contracts
RICK WESTHEAD

The Pentagon yesterday banned Canadian companies from bidding for contracts worth $18.6 billion (U.S.) to help reconstruct Iraq because of Canada's opposition to the U.S.-led war in the Persian Gulf nation.
Also prevented from bidding for the prime contracts are companies from France, Germany and Russia.
U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz revealed the news in a memorandum that limits competition for the contracts to rebuild Iraq's electrical, transportation and oil sectors, among others, to the 63 countries that supported the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq.
The memo justifies banning Canada and others by saying the move is "necessary for the protection of the essential security interests of the United States to limit competition for the prime contracts of these procurements to companies from the United States, Iraq, coalition partners and force-contributing nations."
The directive doesn't specify why allowing Canadian companies to bid would hurt American security interests.
Canadian business officials who have worked in the Middle East have suggested contracts would probably be offered as a reward to those that participated in the war and subsequent occupation.
The contracts cover about 26 major projects and will be awarded for the most part by the State Department, the U.S. Agency for International Development and the Army Corps of Engineers.
Canada would still be eligible to work in Iraq as a subcontractor of one of the prime contractors, said Major Joe Yaswa, a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Defense.
"We have very tight relations with Canada," Yaswa said. "Canada is actively participating in Afghanistan, which is all of one country over."
Like Germany and France, who both are allies of the United States in NATO, Canada decided not to provide troops for an invasion that toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
A spokesperson for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade wasn't available for comment.
Countries whose companies are allowed to compete for contracts include: Australia, the United Kingdom, Poland, Italy and Japan. Even countries such as Uganda, Morocco and Afghanistan are on the list. While they didn't all send troops to Iraq, their leaders back U.S. policy there.


And the follow-up...

Canada threatens to stop aid to Iraq
MARTIN O'HANLON

Paul Martin says he can't "fathom" an American decision to bar Canadian firms from bidding on reconstruction contracts in Iraq and he will take up the matter with the U.S. ambassador.
Martin, who becomes prime minister Friday, said the decision to exclude countries that opposed the American-led invasion of Iraq is flawed.
"I understand the importance of these kinds of contracts, but this shouldn't be just about who gets contracts, who gets business," he said today. "It ought to be what is the best thing for the people of Iraq."
Martin said Canada has committed nearly $300 million for reconstruction in Iraq and that Canadian troops in Afghanistan "are carrying a very, very heavy load" in the war on terrorism.
"I will certainly be discussing this with the ambassador and then we will see."
Deputy Prime Minister John Manley went a step further, suggesting Canada may cut its aid to Iraq.
"It would be difficult for us to give further money," Manley said from Paris where he was attending a state banquet in honour of retiring Prime Minister Jean Chrétien.
"To exclude Canadians just because they are Canadians would be unacceptable if they accept funds from Canadian taxpayers for the reconstruction of Iraq."

Other countries also slammed the snub. Germany called it "unacceptable," France questioned its legality, and Russia issued an implicit threat that it might take a harder line on restructuring Iraqi debt as Washington has been seeking.
The directive from U.S. deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz limits bidders for 26 lucrative contracts worth $18.6 billion (U.S.) to firms from the United States, Iraq, their coalition partners and other countries that have sent troops to Iraq.
Countries that did not sent troops would be eligible for subcontracting work in Iraq.
The order says restricting contract bids "is necessary for the protection of the essential security interests of the United States."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan dismissed criticism, saying the policy is "appropriate and reasonable."
"Prime contracts for reconstruction funded by U.S. taxpayer dollars should go to the Iraqi people and those countries who are working with the United States on the difficult task of helping to build a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq."
He said countries that want to be eligible for a slice of the $18.6 billion can do so by participating militarily.
They can also vie for contracts being financed by a separate international fund that the White House estimates will be worth $13 billion (U.S.), he said.
Germany denounced the decision, calling it "unacceptable," while Russia issued an implicit threat that, in response, it would take a harder line on restructuring Iraqi debt as Washington seeks.
"We noted with astonishment today the reports and we will be speaking about it with the American side," German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said after talks with his Russian counterpart, Igor Ivanov.
The ruling, posted on a Pentagon Web site Tuesday, bars companies from France, Germany, Canada and Russia from bidding on those contracts because their governments opposed the American-led invasion that ousted Saddam Hussein.
In Paris, Foreign Ministry spokesman Herve Ladsous said that France had "taken note" of the Pentagon's decision and was studying whether it follows international law.
"We don't want to make any commentary at this stage," Ladsous said. "We are studying these decisions' compatibility with international competition law, in liaison with our partners, notably the European Union and the (European) Commission."


So, if we don't get to bid on the contracts, we'll punish the Iraqis for it.

Dave.

Edited by Rustling Leaf on
Dec 10, 2003 at 5:22 PM

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Common Cents  
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Committed in May 2002
I'm in fallible

Addiction Index™: 627
Dec 10, 2003  8:13 PM 50

Originally posted by Rustling Leaf
So, if we don't get to bid on the contracts, we'll punish the Iraqis for it.

Dave.



To the "winner" go the spoils - or some such rot...

Characterizing our lack of participation in the extortion of Iraqi oil money as "punishment" is an interesting spin to put on it.

"Wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things" - Ecclesiastes:10-19
:bow:$$$$$:bow:

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bookhead  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in side your computer

Addiction Index™: 1491
Feb 24, 2004  7:02 AM 51

A very interesting interview with a Pentagon Insider on the subject of honourable war...



(Note: Please don't read if you want to cling to your faith in Amurica - or on second thought, maybe it does reveal some remnants of honour.)

Civilization is a pyramid scheme. -Ronald Wright
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bookhead  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in side your computer

Addiction Index™: 1491
Mar 03, 2004  7:23 AM 52

I've been trying to avoid reading news on the situation in Haiti - but did notice an interview on CNN with the "Rebel Leader" - since he wasn't referred to as a "Terrorist", I gotta figure the Amuricans are supporting this little operation...

Civilization is a pyramid scheme. -Ronald Wright
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bookhead  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in side your computer

Addiction Index™: 1491
Mar 16, 2004  7:21 AM 53

Yeah, yeah - I know, nobody's intersted in this war stuff anymore, because the media has told us to put it out of our mind's for a while and get some rest. But just in case there's anyone still awake, here's a very interesting article speculating on the next four years of Bush in Amurica.

I found the bit about the CIA replacing their man Saddam Hussein, with their new guy - Ahmad Chalabi - and their reasons for doing so, to be particularily interesting...

My apologies in advance for anyone who's sleep I'm disturbing. Sweet dreams!

Civilization is a pyramid scheme. -Ronald Wright
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gilsan  
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Committed in Jul 2001
I'm in Bridgewater NS

Addiction Index™: 1440
Mar 17, 2004  3:12 PM 54

I believe that the American's (Bush) will "catch" bin Laden mid to late October to help lock in the next four years in power.

snugabugblankets.etsy.com
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i6s1  
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Committed in May 2001
I'm in Vancouver

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Mar 20, 2004  3:36 AM 55

Originally posted by bookhead
I've been trying to avoid reading news on the situation in Haiti - but did notice an interview on CNN with the "Rebel Leader" - since he wasn't referred to as a "Terrorist", I gotta figure the Amuricans are supporting this little operation...




I was watching CNN a couple of days ago, and I had your post in mind. From what I noticed, they avoided the use of the word terrorist. They refered to the AQ guys surrounded in Pakistan as "Fighters" and refered to the Baghdad hotel bombers as "Insurgents". The only person who called anyone a terrorist was some retired army general talking head, and he was refering to AQ - a known terrorist orgnization. I know that some people, apparently you included, have issues with the way the word is thrown around, but I don't think that CNN is guilty of this.


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frankienstien  
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Mar 21, 2004  11:32 PM 56

you guys and girls sound very harsh. I'm from America and it's not like I voted for Bush,nor do I agree with what he or other governmentalists believe. I 'm going to vote against Bush in the next election, becasuse I'am against this whole ''big brother to the ••••ing world'' thing.


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Icecube  
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Committed in Feb 2004
I'm in

Addiction Index™: 60
Mar 21, 2004  11:49 PM 57

Chapters: Save On The Deal of the Week!

Originally posted by frankienstien
you guys and girls sound very harsh. I'm from America and it's not like I voted for Bush,nor do I agree with what he or other governmentalists believe. I 'm going to vote against Bush in the next election, becasuse I'am against this whole ''big brother to the ••••ing world'' thing.




Will USA fight three wars ?

1) Taliban
2) Iraq
3) North Korea?


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othdawg  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in Vangroover
BC
Addiction Index™: 1745
Mar 22, 2004  12:28 PM 58

Originally posted by Icecube
Will USA fight three wars ?

1) Taliban
2) Iraq
3) North Korea?



you forgot

4) War on Drugs
5) Obesity

After all thats the only way to solve a problem, war! Huh! good gawd..


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bookhead  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in side your computer

Addiction Index™: 1491
Apr 12, 2004  5:51 AM 59

Have you seen Bush's joke video? Who knew war could be this funny!?!

Civilization is a pyramid scheme. -Ronald Wright
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othdawg  
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Committed in Jun 2001
I'm in Vangroover
BC
Addiction Index™: 1745
Apr 12, 2004  1:11 PM 60

Originally posted by bookhead
Have you seen Bush's joke video? Who knew war could be this funny!?!



I can't believe the non-stoicness bush is displaying in the media.. Cracking a chuckle after saying he woulda "moved mountains" to prevent 9/11.. *cringe*


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