Originally posted by chdude3 Of course I want my child to find their own identity. And there is something to the adage "out of sight, out of mind". I'm not going to be monitoring my child 24/7 - if John goes over to a friend's house and smokes up to see what its like, fine. But if I find out that it is affecting his grades, health, or attitude, there's going to be trouble.

I totally agree with this, and sounds similar to my own experience as a teenager. My parents were largely unaware of any drinking or pot smoking i did as a teenager because it largely falls into the description above, it did not adversely affect my grades, health or attitude and i would categorize it as normal growing up experiences, rebellion even seems like a strong word.

I also agree with:

Originally posted by mbg And this *is* possible to do. There are plenty of kids who don't 'rebel' against everything... they test their individuality, but don't rebel against society.

And i think as a teenager, i would have fallen into that category, i was pretty well behaved and responsible compared to most of my peers. I don't think a few beers at parties or the occasional joint is very serious rebellion or cause for too much concern, it's just part of growing up. I think as a parent, you do the best you can to talk to them about your personal views and morals, instill confidence and self esteem and good decision making ability to make responsible choices, but as they get older your sphere of influence loosens and you just have to trust that you laid a good foundation. Interesting stat, only 25% of 15-17 year olds have completely abstained from alcohol (1998-1999), although there are probably more who abstain from pot smoking.(Drinking stats )

I think brash put things particularly well, especially in regards to helping people unwind, god knows it helped me destress during some particularly tough school terms and it worked when nothing else would (including counselling on managing stress from the school counsellor - there were helpful hints that i still use now but it wasn't the complete solution). I think there is definitely some truth to "Perhaps the medical consequences of living with the stress yet having no release would be worse." in my case.

Originally posted by alligator I think brash put things particularly well, especially in regards to helping people unwind, god knows it helped me destress during some particularly tough school terms and it worked when nothing else would (including counselling on managing stress from the school counsellor - there were helpful hints that i still use now but it wasn't the complete solution). I think there is definitely some truth to "Perhaps the medical consequences of living with the stress yet having no release would be worse." in my case.

And I guess that's where, as I said before, I get lost. I can't see how drinking or weed could possibly de-stress anyone. But I guess everyone is different, and to each their own. I have no problem if a friend wants to smoke up to destress, but I think I'd have a problem if my child felt they required marijuana as a crutch to get through a stressful situation. Hopefully I can explain some possible alternatives to my child - but once they are old enough, its their decision.

Many people have argued that marijuana isn't as harmful as tobacco, not as addicting, etc... But if it's ever legalized, people who become regular marijuana smokers will try the next illegal drug. For one thing, it's the promise of an even better high, and secondly, it's illegal, so it's being rebellious and cool again. I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure than many of the other drugs people use are a lot more harmful than marijuana.

I hate the way our world works. We discover/invent something, later find out it's harmful, but we don't remove it from our lives because we'd be killing an industry making a lot of people jobless and possibly hurting the economy. Not to mention people rebel when they lose their freedom.

Ideally, I'm sure the government would love to completely ban tobacco, but why? You'd kill the tobacco industry, lose out on some nice tax money, plus you'd lose a lot of jobs from those people in the insurance field and medical field that help those suffering from heath issues from smoking. So it will never go away. Same with alcohol. Same with cars. And possibly later, same with marijuana. Like someone else said, this is the time where we can keep something illegal to prevent a hell of a lot of work to remove it from society later.

We are also too greedy. (going a little off-topic here) If they decided to make any vehicle that releases any trace carbon monoxide illegal, I can assure you that we'd have a new family of cars that run on water, air, sun, electricity whatever in no time at all. But then we'd really hurt the oil & gas industry which is huge, so that can't happen, and it won't. It's going to be gradual, and probably take just as long to disappear as it did to appear (so 70 years or so).

Originally posted by brash These days, its far easier for a 17 year old to get his hands on some weed than a bottle of rum. Catch him a bottle it's taken away and maybe gets a ticket, catch him with a joint, he gets a criminal record. That isn't justice, and making smoking pot a crime hurts more than it helps. There is a large body of medical evidence that the effects of marijuana use are relatively benign. Unfortunately the political "war on drugs" has resulted in much of this information (i.e. government studies) being hidden. Regarding medical consequences of marijuana use. yes inhaling smoke of any kind is harmful, however the average marijuana smoker does not smoke enough to cause significant harm to the respiratory system. Marijuana is not addictive, nor is a significant quantity required to affect the user. There is no evidence to suggest that marijuana use (on its own) results in increased costs to the medical system, and there is in fact evidence to the contrary. The "cost of health care" argument is frequently raised, but when one considers how little impact marijuana use has on health, I don't think it has any validity. I could suggest that "getting high" serves as a release and means of relaxation for some individuals. If smoking a joint on the weekend helps this person live a happy productive life, is there anything wrong with that? It's certainly preferable to drinking to excess, the adverse effects of which are well documented. Perhaps the medical consequences of living with the stress yet having no release would be worse. Is there a reason to get high? Is there a reason to get drunk? Is there a reason to drink coffee to get going in the morning? Does altering one's thought processes and/or perceptions by consuming any substance serve any purpose? There's a difference between "harmful" and "not good for you". If it isn't addictive, and causes no "real" harm is there any reason to make it illegal? To what extreme do we take the belief the government needs to protect us from ourselves? --------------------------------------- Note: Anyone seriously interested in finding out the facts about Marijuana should read the book Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. Lots of medical studies including several by both Canadian and American health authorities

It's always nice to see someone able to see beyond the propaganda and come up with some actual facts instead of the same BS that's been passed down for generations by parents not wanting their kids to smoke. I agree with all that you've written and couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by brash These days, its far easier for a 17 year old to get his hands on some weed than a bottle of rum. Catch him a bottle it's taken away and maybe gets a ticket, catch him with a joint, he gets a criminal record. That isn't justice, and making smoking pot a crime hurts more than it helps. There is a large body of medical evidence that the effects of marijuana use are relatively benign. Unfortunately the political "war on drugs" has resulted in much of this information (i.e. government studies) being hidden. Regarding medical consequences of marijuana use. yes inhaling smoke of any kind is harmful, however the average marijuana smoker does not smoke enough to cause significant harm to the respiratory system. Marijuana is not addictive, nor is a significant quantity required to affect the user. There is no evidence to suggest that marijuana use (on its own) results in increased costs to the medical system, and there is in fact evidence to the contrary. The "cost of health care" argument is frequently raised, but when one considers how little impact marijuana use has on health, I don't think it has any validity. I could suggest that "getting high" serves as a release and means of relaxation for some individuals. If smoking a joint on the weekend helps this person live a happy productive life, is there anything wrong with that? It's certainly preferable to drinking to excess, the adverse effects of which are well documented. Perhaps the medical consequences of living with the stress yet having no release would be worse. Is there a reason to get high? Is there a reason to get drunk? Is there a reason to drink coffee to get going in the morning? Does altering one's thought processes and/or perceptions by consuming any substance serve any purpose? There's a difference between "harmful" and "not good for you". If it isn't addictive, and causes no "real" harm is there any reason to make it illegal? To what extreme do we take the belief the government needs to protect us from ourselves? --------------------------------------- Note: Anyone seriously interested in finding out the facts about Marijuana should read the book Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. Lots of medical studies including several by both Canadian and American health authorities

WHO ARE YOU - AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH BRASH!?!?!?!?

I've really enjoyed reading everyones responses, I find the range of views interesting.

As a parent, I feel it is my obligation to protect my children from all drugs, including marijuana, at all cost. Under no circumstances would I ever allow my child to smoke pot in my home or anywhere near me. Just as I have to respect their views, they also have to respect mine. If I ever attained the knowledge that they were participating in the use of pot while they were minors, I would do everything in my power to try convince them to stop. To date, I haven't seen any kid succeed in life because he/she smokes pot.

I have a somewhat biased opinion of minor age pot users. Any exposure that I have had (I'm talking about junior/high school levels), unfortunately have not left a favorable impression with me. I see kids wandering aimlessly through life, throwing away their education, a lack of motivation, continually cutting classes...... I wonder why these kids are like this? Why do they throw their education out the door, why do they have a lack of motivation? Is it because of marijuana useage? Is this stuff really good for you? Or are there other issues that cause this?

That being said, I can only protect my kids within my own four walls, but hopefully I can educate them enough that they can make an informed decision when they're out on their own without "mommy." Kiddie drug pushers are already in junior high schools selling their wares and pot will be at many parties they attend. I can only hope that they'll make the right decision, although I'm not naive enough to think they'll not ever partake in it. I just hope they won't enjoy the altered state of mind one gets into, I know I didn't. I enjoy having control over my faculties too much. Overall, though, I think I'm having a problem keeping an open mind, damn it, panic begins to set in when I think of my own kids smoking pot.

Now as for adults, I'm really confused. It appears to me that for some, its just a form of recreation and pleasure. For others, its a means to eliminate emotional and physical pain. It seems that a persons quality of life could be at stake here. Do I have the right to deny someone that pleasure? Isn't it simpler just to have a hoot than to go to a doctor and then fill out a prescription for anti-depressants? Perhaps pot may not even have the negative side affects that presciption medication does. Hmmm.... I do have concerns, however, such as effect on ones family life, smoking pot and driving, long term affects on ones health if any, will it eventually become a strain on our healthcare system, etc....etc....etc.... I just can't commit without more information.

Added: Alligator, I like your spice jar of booze.... bet you caught a real buzz.... (I bet your mom has had some good chuckles with you.)

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah As a parent, I feel it is my obligation to protect my children from all drugs, including marijuana, at all cost. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 24 hours in a day...... 24 beer in a case...... Coincidence??

Interesting sig...

Originally posted by MaxPower2000 Many people have argued that marijuana isn't as harmful as tobacco, not as addicting, etc... But if it's ever legalized, people who become regular marijuana smokers will try the next illegal drug. For one thing, it's the promise of an even better high, and secondly, it's illegal, so it's being rebellious and cool again. I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure than many of the other drugs people use are a lot more harmful than marijuana.

i do admit that i did try some of the chemical drugs but i couldn't stand the high and i did see what the chemicals did to one of my friends,
he o.d.'ed on acid and ended up in the phsyc ward for about 3 months he was convinced that he was an orange, it may sound funny now but then it wasn't, as far as i know he has never touched chemicals since then but he still smokes pot. i've been free of chemical drugs for 6 years now i still have flashbacks but nothing major, the holes in my long term memory are finally staring to close and i know that i will never touch the chemicals again luckily i never got addicted, when i quite them it was cold turkey and i've never had withdrawals.

ever wonder who's bright idea it was to create acid, crack, herione? try the government or military, doctors, scientists all loking for the miracle drug that heals all, makes killing machines etc etc... im glad that pot at least mellows you and doesn't make you violent.
did you know that chewing on the stems from pot plants can help alleviate a headache?

EDIT by Slave #17: Fixed the quotes/vbcode

Originally posted by Aberfoyle Interesting sig...

Damn, you quoted me!

A little personal experience to add. I grew up with many friends who smoked pot. For many it was an occasional thing, much like drinking. Most people of any age recognize the importance of being in full possession of your faculties. Being stoned, or drunk is not conducive to things like schoolwork. Most of them did well in school, and now enjoy successful careers as adults.

One of my friends actually had a mother who was a hippy (even in the 80s). She permitted her son to smoke up, but was very insistent on responsible use... he was one of the nicest, and smartest and well adjusted people, I knew. He also did very well in school.

For some others it became a crutch... the important thing to recognize is the crutch and the need for a crutch are two very different things. For some it was weed, others it was drinking, others it was sex... any number of distractions to take their minds off perceived problems. Although marijuana is not physiologically addictive, it is psychologically addictive for some people. These situations were resolved not by stopping the weed, but rather by addressing the real problems.

As far as handling it with children, teaching them to feel good about themselves without the need for any mind-altering substance is the key, in my opinion. I think far more kids drink, smoke and smoke up today because of the "forbidden fruit" allure of these things.

I don't know if it is necessary to mention this, but the "pot leads to stronger drugs" theory has been thoroughly disproven by statistics and research. Most marijuana users do not seem to have any need for a greater "high". Unlike other drugs such as alcohol, the user does not develop a tolerance for THC (the drug in marijuana) he/she in fact can develop a greater affinity to the drug, making it easier to get "stoned" rather than harder. It is this tolerance which can develops in users of some other drugs which makes it necessary for them to seek a greater "high" by moving to harder drugs.

Hmmm.... well maybe as is with alcohol, there is also the unsophisticated/irresponsible pot smoker, or the sophisticated/responsible pot smoker.

I'm not sure a lack of sophistication or responsibility have much to do with the abuse of drugs (including, of course, the most abused and dangerous of our common drugs: alcohol) - I'm leaning towards brash's crutch theory, which I think has an underlying cause of an addictive personality, and/or as may be proved in the future a physiological basis in certain individuals.

Originally posted by Aberfoyle I'm not sure a lack of sophistication or responsibility have much to do with the abuse of drugs (including, of course, the most abused and dangerous of our common drugs: alcohol) - I'm leaning towards brash's crutch theory, which I think has an underlying cause of an addictive personality, and/or as may be proved in the future a physiological basis in certain individuals.

When discussing young people (teenagers) specifically, I think there are a number fo issues which go along with the age. Insecurity and a tendency to escapism, which lead them to get into things which "feel good" and avoid responsibility. Even things like spending excessive time in internet chats, or watching tv derive from the same tendency. In my experience, drugs are just one of many distractions which a young person will pursue to avoid the uncomfortable and intimidating challenges of "growing up".

Originally posted by brash In my experience, drugs are just one of many distractions which a young person will pursue to avoid the uncomfortable and intimidating challenges of "growing up".

So what did kids do before there were drugs? I can't help but think that there must be a number of more positive alternatives than drugs for a teen to turn to. And I'd be more than happy to discuss these with my child, if it will keep them away from drugs until they are old enough to make a responsible decision.

Originally posted by chdude3 So what did kids do before there were drugs? I can't help but think that there must be a number of more positive alternatives than drugs for a teen to turn to. And I'd be more than happy to discuss these with my child, if it will keep them away from drugs until they are old enough to make a responsible decision.

You're so right, parents enroll their kids in programs such as hockey for example. Music lessons are a big hit with kids nowadays, it seems that alot of boys are interested in guitar and drums, not so much piano (they may get there butts kicked if the bullies found out, although its great for girls), soccor and baseball programs are also available. There's also school extra curricular activities and clubs. These programs are a positive influence for kids, although it takes time, energy, and committment from the parent. I think parents also have to find a way to stay connected with their kids, so when serious issues do come up, they are able to communicate and discussion can take place.