Originally posted by maleman74 To further comment on inhaling smoke. A while back I was discussing with a couple of the old boys about smoke. One was critical about the cigar I was smoking. He claimed it stinks and it is polluting the air. He then stated that he has the choice to smoke or not. However he stated that when someone smokes in front of him, he loses that option of choice. At that time I did not drive and I inquired about his vehicle. I stated that all the cars driving on the road are taking the option of free air away from me. That cars and trucks pollute the air. Factories are an enviromental joke. Imagine a company making 1,000,000 (estimated guess) a day and are fined 25,000.00. Man they must really feel the pain of being fined. I, at one time worked in the tobacco fields. The tobacco which is picked is not the same when it is smoked. However it is legal because tobacco is big business, same as alcohol. Both have additives. I personally believe that pot and hash should be legal. However the politics is trying to figure out how to make more money off the taxapyer.

Money needs to be made off the marijuana buyer because the money to pay for the health studies and health care required when you are going to give the OK to the great unwashed that it has the government's blessing -- they are then responsible, and the funds have to come from somewhere. It absolutely must come from the people choosing to ingest the poison.

Cars, trucks and factories pollute the air, but I don't suck on exhaust pipes. The concentration is much greater with second-hand smoke. People do not sit in the garage with the door closed and their car running unless they want to kill themselves.. but that is similar to sitting in a bar full of smoke.

The problem is that no-one can find a solution to the car/truck pollution problem (although I would argue that outlawing SUVs and minivans for non-commercial use would go a long way, as well as making the roads safer). The cigarette solution is much easier. People tend to need cars to get around, with the distances being so great and transit not having the coverage it needs. People do not need to smoke to the same degree as they need their cars, and you have enough people who do not smoke to get the political support you need to make a move...

For the members in this thread/or bowl who smoke pot, I'm curious how you feel about your children (I'm talking 12+) smoking it? What is an appropriate age to start smoking pot? What will you do if you catch or see signs of your child smoking pot? Is it a case of do as I say and not as I do? (Many parents who smoke tobacco, probably often find their kids stealing their smokes and trying it out at home, right? I suspect the same would happen with pot.) How do you explain responsible pot smoking to them, and what is responsible usage of pot?

Just Curious.

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah For the members in this thread/or bowl who smoke pot, I'm curious how you feel about your children (I'm talking 12+) smoking it? What is an appropriate age to start smoking pot? What will you do if you catch or see signs of your child smoking pot? Is it a case of do as I say and not as I do? (Many parents who smoke tobacco, probably often find their kids stealing their smokes and trying it out at home, right? I suspect the same would happen with pot.) How do you explain responsible pot smoking to them, and what is responsible usage of pot? Just Curious.

one thing that i have noticed with teenagers (it not being that long since i was one) is that if it is forbidden there is higher chance of the teen trying it, the whole rebellion thing.. but would the teenager find it so fun if the parent said that it was ok to smoke it but that they had to do it at home where it is safe and with the parent? i don't know about you but if my parents had said that to me i probably would never had started. what fun is it if it isn't taboo?
i also consider myself a responsible smoker, i won't smoke in front of my children, if i do smoke it it's not in or around my home, and i won't smoke it until nitetime after the kids are in bed, which sucks for me because i usually use it to deal with pain as regular painkillers don't work, and i'm allergic to morphine and codiene. It doesn't always stop the pain but at least it can bring me to a point where the pain doesn't matter.

Originally posted by mbg I would agree with your "personal choice" argument as long as you are willing to sign a waiver that releases the public from having to pay for your medical debts IF it turns out that the stuff is harmful, and that if it is proven to cause birth defects, you would agree not to have children. To be fair, this should also apply to tobacco and excessive quantities of alcohol.

Let's include people who eat unhealthy foods, people who do not exercise enough, and people with dangerous jobs on this waiver release plan - anyone else? Government health care plans should only be available to saints!

Originally posted by s_quiggles one thing that i have noticed with teenagers (it not being that long since i was one) is that if it is forbidden there is higher chance of the teen trying it, the whole rebellion thing.. but would the teenager find it so fun if the parent said that it was ok to smoke it but that they had to do it at home where it is safe and with the parent? i don't know about you but if my parents had said that to me i probably would never had started. what fun is it if it isn't taboo? i also consider myself a responsible smoker, i won't smoke in front of my children, if i do smoke it it's not in or around my home, and i won't smoke it until nitetime after the kids are in bed, which sucks for me because i usually use it to deal with pain as regular painkillers don't work, and i'm allergic to morphine and codiene. It doesn't always stop the pain but at least it can bring me to a point where the pain doesn't matter.

Case in point, I knew a family a long time ago where that happened, and all three kids in the family smoked, starting with the 11 year old, going up to the 18 year old.

Only one example, of course... I can appreciate the logic of your argument, but what do you say about the images from movies, etc, and peer pressure? If you said the same about alcohol, would teens stop drinking?

It's hard to say, but if it was true, the downside is that they might find something else to replace alcohol/tobacco, and it might be worse.

Do you consider pot to be recreational or medicinal (do you use it only for medicinal purposes?).

It's good that you're a responsible smoker, and that you will have saved the money for your medical debts when you are denied public funding because of smoking. It might be a good idea to save something like $1 per joint...accumulate it over time, and by the time you are brain dead, have cancer, or have problems with stamina, you can spend from the "Responsibility Fund" to make yourself feel better. You won't burden the public one bit! One other thing you could consider is to contribute the money to your life insurance fund so that your loved ones have more compensation for their loss. I don't think it would make it any easier, though.

Originally posted by Common Cents Let's include people who eat unhealthy foods, people who do not exercise enough, and people with dangerous jobs on this waiver release plan - anyone else? Government health care plans should only be available to saints!

Yes, but you have to do it progressively. Unhealthy foods are next on the list. The gov't has to start with the things they have control over, because they have to be involved.. .it's a 50/50 deal.

Alcohol, tobacco, pot, unhealthy foods, etc are easier to regulate than dangerous jobs (which may be necessary jobs) and inactivity. If they heavily warn against it and regulate it, they have a right to deny or decrease money to those who ignored the warnings. Since the gov't has the opportunity to affect the supply of pot, tobacco and unhealthy foods, they are in more of a position to take action.

I'd like to see SUVs and non-commercial minivans made illegal, but there are too many "me too" folks to make that happen. And unfortunately, unlike the other categories above, it's often other people who sustain the injury and not the people indulging themselves.

Wouldn't you feel incredibly stupid if, in 20 years time, relatives and friends are dying all around you (optimistic, and an exaggeration, I realize) because you decided to support legalizing pot when you thought you knew better? The silly thing is that the alternative -- keeping it illegal -- harms nobody, and as we have seen with tobacco it will take a very long time to outlaw it if problems are discovered.

I would prefer that the status quo be maintained and enforcement simply be relaxed. That is much easier to reverse.

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah For the members in this thread/or bowl who smoke pot, I'm curious how you feel about your children (I'm talking 12+) smoking it? What is an appropriate age to start smoking pot? What will you do if you catch or see signs of your child smoking pot? Is it a case of do as I say and not as I do? (Many parents who smoke tobacco, probably often find their kids stealing their smokes and trying it out at home, right? I suspect the same would happen with pot.) How do you explain responsible pot smoking to them, and what is responsible usage of pot? Just Curious.

I have never smoked pot. Secondhand crap from a concert is about the closest I've come. And my [theoretical] child had better never smoke it, either. My house, my rules - and no drugs. If my house is going to be cigarette free (which it will be), it's also damn well going to be marijuana free.

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah How do you explain responsible pot smoking to them, and what is responsible usage of pot? Just Curious.

I have thought about this before,even though i have no kids. I think i would try to handle it in a similar manner to underage drinking or premarital sex. It's unrealistic to think they're never going to do it. You might get lucky, have kids like the kind of kid that chdude was( ), but you can't count on it. I can't reasonably forbid my kids to do it since i did all of those things myself and think i turned out okay.

i think i would try to explain about moderation, and to me moderation is once a week or less. A joint a day is not moderation to me. trafficking is not moderation. I would probably tell (truthful) stories of people that i knew who overdid it, and how it affected them.

Like when i was young, my cousin had a boyfriend who while they were dating was a really good guy, nice, smart, got good grades, played hockey and then his parents moved away in grade 10 but he wanted to stay to finish high school and ended up boarding to finish out high school. He had no parental supervision got into smoking a lot of pot and other drugs too and his grades fell, never went to university, etc... It's not like it ruined his life, and realistically I think the parents leaving him to roam free had more to do with it than the pot, but you can gloss over those details with kids. I would also tell them about my roomates during school who smoked pot everyday, and it just sucked the initiative out of them and didn't do great things for their short term memory. I would also probably not tell my kids if i ever smoked pot unless directly asked. I assume my kids will think that i'm just as much of a dork as i thought my parents were and that i never would have done such a thing. And then they can feel like they're rebelling by smoking the occasional joint, because kids like to feel like they're rebelling a little sometimes.

Reminds me of a funny story, when i was 16 i was going up to my cousin's for may 2-4 weekend (same partner in crime as mentioned above) and my mom caught me going into the liquor cabinet in the middle of the night, you know for 'supplies'. But she didn't forbid me to go, actually she didn't say much at all, and i asked her about it years later, like how come she didn't ground me or forbid me to go out, and she said that she thought that if she started coming down on me, and not give me a little space, that it may turn out worse later, and she said besides, it was only a spice bottle ( 3 shots of vodka will fit in a spice bottle, i probably weighed 105 pounds at the time, it was plenty ). And i think it was a good call, you have to give your kids a bit of space to learn things for themselves. Of course every kid is different. I guess that's why you get 14-15 years of practice to get to know them first, hope it helps.

Right on, alligator! Now there's a sensible, realistic, and well thought-out position. If or when you have kids, as they are drifting to sleep at night, I'm sure they will hear the theme music playing: "Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Supermom!"

Originally posted by Aberfoyle Right on, alligator! Now there's a sensible, realistic, and well thought-out position. If or when you have kids, as they are drifting to sleep at night, I'm sure they will hear the theme music playing: "Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Supermom!"

It's not the cape that lets her get up to the sky, it's the pot.

Originally posted by Aberfoyle Right on, alligator! Now there's a sensible, realistic, and well thought-out position. If or when you have kids, as they are drifting to sleep at night, I'm sure they will hear the theme music playing: "Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Supermom!"

Kids will be kids. I certainly hope I'll raise my child better than that; that they won't feel the need to 'rebel' against me. They grow and experiment, and in today's society I wouldn't be surprised if they did try pot. I think I wouldn't be so upset if it was just that - an experiement, just to see what it was like. But if I ever found out about semi-regular usage, there would be big trouble. My head is not so far up my ass that I think kids don't try this stuff, and I won't fault mine for trying - just that my future kids had better not make it a habit.

Originally posted by mbg It's not the cape that lets her get up to the sky, it's the pot.

Actually, I haven't smoked pot in over a year, and pretty rarely before that, maybe once a month, not sure if i will again in the future. My current circle of friends and boyfriend don't smoke, and i'm not so enamoured with it that i'm going to smoke up alone in my living room....

Originally posted by chdude3 I certainly hope I'll raise my child better than that; that they won't feel the need to 'rebel' against me.

Are you actually serious? Did you never rebel as a teenager, even a little? I think rebelling is a natural stage in growing up, kids naturally try to differentiate themselves from their parents and create their own identity. i won't take it as a personal insult on my parenting style if my kids rebel a little.

Originally posted by chdude3 Kids will be kids. I certainly hope I'll raise my child better than that; that they won't feel the need to 'rebel' against me. They grow and experiment, and in today's society I wouldn't be surprised if they did try pot. I think I wouldn't be so upset if it was just that - an experiement, just to see what it was like. But if I ever found out about semi-regular usage, there would be big trouble. My head is not so far up my ass that I think kids don't try this stuff, and I won't fault mine for trying - just that my future kids had better not make it a habit.

And this *is* possible to do. There are plenty of kids who don't 'rebel' against everything... they test their individuality, but don't rebel against society. Unfortunately, these kids don't get the attention...

But there are too many parents who are throwing up their hands and saying "kids will be kids", ignoring that they encouraged the behaviour and are more responsible than anyone else for the outcome.

These days, its far easier for a 17 year old to get his hands on some weed than a bottle of rum. Catch him a bottle it's taken away and maybe gets a ticket, catch him with a joint, he gets a criminal record. That isn't justice, and making smoking pot a crime hurts more than it helps.

There is a large body of medical evidence that the effects of marijuana use are relatively benign. Unfortunately the political "war on drugs" has resulted in much of this information (i.e. government studies) being hidden.

Regarding medical consequences of marijuana use. yes inhaling smoke of any kind is harmful, however the average marijuana smoker does not smoke enough to cause significant harm to the respiratory system. Marijuana is not addictive, nor is a significant quantity required to affect the user. There is no evidence to suggest that marijuana use (on its own) results in increased costs to the medical system, and there is in fact evidence to the contrary. The "cost of health care" argument is frequently raised, but when one considers how little impact marijuana use has on health, I don't think it has any validity.

I could suggest that "getting high" serves as a release and means of relaxation for some individuals. If smoking a joint on the weekend helps this person live a happy productive life, is there anything wrong with that? It's certainly preferable to drinking to excess, the adverse effects of which are well documented. Perhaps the medical consequences of living with the stress yet having no release would be worse.

Is there a reason to get high? Is there a reason to get drunk? Is there a reason to drink coffee to get going in the morning? Does altering one's thought processes and/or perceptions by consuming any substance serve any purpose? There's a difference between "harmful" and "not good for you".

If it isn't addictive, and causes no "real" harm is there any reason to make it illegal?

To what extreme do we take the belief the government needs to protect us from ourselves?

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Note: Anyone seriously interested in finding out the facts about Marijuana should read the book Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. Lots of medical studies including several by both Canadian and American health authorities

Originally posted by alligator Are you actually serious? Did you never rebel as a teenager, even a little? I think rebelling is a natural stage in growing up, kids naturally try to differentiate themselves from their parents and create their own identity. i won't take it as a personal insult on my parenting style if my kids rebel a little.

Read mbg's post, which directly followed yours. I think he sums it up wonderfully.

Of course I want my child to find their own identity. And there is something to the adage "out of sight, out of mind". I'm not going to be monitoring my child 24/7 - if John goes over to a friend's house and smokes up to see what its like, fine. But if I find out that it is affecting his grades, health, or attitude, there's going to be trouble.

And of course I 'rebelled' as a teenager, but it didn't involve drugs, underage drinking, or sex. Perhaps I realized that I wasn't ready for stuff like that, or maybe I had better things to do than sit around and smoke, or that there was simply not someone around I thought was worth my time. Whatever the reason, there are more ways than weed for a kid to rebel.

I guess there are a few things that no matter how hard I try, I cannot simply wrap my head around other people's point of view. Whe brash says "I could suggest that "getting high" serves as a release and means of relaxation for some individuals", I see that as a perfectly logical explanation. Different people have different ways of unwinding - for me, a mind altering drug is not one of them. It is my own inability to understand the point of view that is the failing.